Bolsonaro, a former army captain, took office on January 1, after running a right-wing populist campaign. His administration has cut funding for research, questioned the work of scientists and attempted to roll back environmental protections.
Scientific American spoke with Galvão about the situation.
[An edited transcript of the interview follows.]
What happened in your meeting with Pontes?
Well, that was a good surprise for me. I was afraid I would be pressed to resign. Pontes never did that. He said, “The problem we have with the president has reached a point where you cannot work any further for the government.” However, he was very professional. Over almost an hour, we discussed in detail everything that should be done to provide enough financial resources for INPE to keep carrying out its activities and make the commitment not to curb any of our data, not to try to put any pressure on our public release of data.
Are you in the service of a non-Brazilian NGO?
No, definitely not. That is madness.
Was the data that INPE disclosed on deforestation incorrect?
What happened next?
When the president reacted to all the news, he was in an interview with the international press. And he was very rude to us. He said that the data was a lie. He said that I was working for an international organization. He was accusing me of betraying my country. It’s a very serious charge. This was very, very childish, for our president to say that.
What role should the president have in questioning or otherwise commenting on data released by scientific bodies such as INPE?
He should never question that. That’s the first time we had that, in Brazil, from the president. Now, unfortunately, the president is trying to assail our walls of scientific knowledge.
What are the ramifications of populist administrations questioning science?
Usually, when public officials like [U.S. President Donald] Trump and Bolsonaro make those comments, they obviously aren’t aimed at the educated population. They aim at people who either are not properly educated or who have a second objective in exploring those ideas. From a scientific point of view, they’re simply mistaken.
Global warming is not a question anymore. The question is the anthropic effect on global warming, and that, obviously, is still a matter of discussion. That is a matter that can be solved only with scientific studies, and scientific data, and scientific simulations. Politicians should have no role in that, no role at all. They should use only the results of science to establish their strategies, what to do as a country under those situations, how to control that. But do not fight against the findings of science because there simply aren’t results. You can contest it if you have a better model, if you have other data. If you don’t have other data, just forget it. Don’t be silly and attack science.
How should scientists protect themselves, and science, from government interference?
There is no other way but to give a clear message to the public. Sometimes we scientists stay in too parochial environments. We should move further, go into the population and explain more.
How do you think Bolsonaro will approach conflicts with science going forward?
I expect that with my strong reaction, the president is going to think a bit more cleverly about what to do in the future when he attacks Brazilian science.
